Saturday, June 13, 2009

Windows Vista is the Operating System of my Better Nature.

So here's a thought that hit me a few days back --

I think we've all heard the idea of appealing to someone's better nature, in order to accomplish something good. And there's a certain branch of Christianity that holds the idea that humanity essentially has no better nature, and anything good one does comes from God, and anything bad comes from the individual person. The only thing you're responsible for is the bad things. You have no control, no input, and nothing to do with the good things (which, in a way, almost makes the good things impersonal, because if it all comes from God, couldn't the good things come from anyone? Whereas the bad things are a result of the person's personality. Some people might steal, whereas other might murder).

Anyway, for people who believe that ... do they have a better nature to appeal to? After all, their better nature is a result of God, and not having any connection to their personality. So in appealing to their personality, wouldn't someone just be appealing to God? If so, why not cut out the middle man/the vessel and go to God directly?

6 comments:

atimetorend said...

"...why not cut out the middle man/the vessel and go to God directly?"

I think that is the idea for people who believe that? The less the middle man is involved, the better?

You started the chorus of this song playing in my head:

More of You and less of me
Oh, my Father, I want to be
A spotless vessel so all can see
More of You and less of me

What can I offer You when the
very best I do
Is marked by the stain of my sin?
My weakness only proves that
though I might be used
Your grace is the power within me

(Chorus)

Though in my heart I've planned to
follow Your commands
Sin is still waging it's war
But You have done your part,
redeemed my wayward heart
Now cause it to shine with Your glory

OneSmallStep said...

Atimetorend,

I can't help but find those lyrics creepy. There's a difference between praying to God that one becomes who s/he was created to be, and praying that God completely eradicate the person's identity altogether, so that all others see is God.

Why would anyone bother getting to know the person if the person is busy wishing that the world would see Someone Else?

societyvs said...

"Anyway, for people who believe that ... do they have a better nature to appeal to?" (OSS)

No - they have a sin nature to appeal to apparently and that is about it unfortunately. Whatever good they have or bring forth - is thanks to God alone (and nothing they have done). ATTR summed it up in that semi-hymn they sing at churches - which I used to sing once upon a time also.

"So in appealing to their personality, wouldn't someone just be appealing to God? If so, why not cut out the middle man/the vessel and go to God directly?" (OSS)

What the person is admitting they are absolutely useless and 'rags of filthy righteousness' before God - in essence - nothing good comes from them alone. So why even go to them in the first place with any question at all? You're correct - address God - apparently this is what is expected.

They make self-admissions of being 'dirt-bags' as is - and even admit they cannot be trusted in some ways - since all they have is this 'sinful nature' keeping them 'human'. Last person I would ask for an honest answer is someone that is basically living some lie about their human nature (God created them good).

Lorena said...

Have you ever heard of Einsteinian atheists? Richard Dawkings coined the expression, and it refers to pantheists.

Pantheists believe that God is everything and everyone. So your eyes are 2 of the eyes of God, and your hands are 2 of his/her many hands.

In other words, there isn't a super being outside of nature. In that sense, when somebody hugs you, God is hugging you. Conversely if someone insults you, God is insulting you.

I find that idea interesting because it puts the onus of our destiny on the hands of people, acts of nature aside.

In short, there is no middle-man. You are God. Your actions are important in the evolution of God.

The idea is a bit crazy, but if I had to believe in God, that's the kind of God I would believe in.

I sort of believe in a higher power, but it isn't supernatural. To me, the collection of all things has power, and it is power higher than mine. But it isn't something to be worshiped or prayed to, it is just life itself.

OneSmallStep said...

Society,

**So why even go to them in the first place with any question at all? You're correct - address God - apparently this is what is expected.**

The other question I would have is if everything good is coming from God anyway ... why does God involve people, period? What use would people have, if they can produce nothing on their own, and it all has to come from God?

**They make self-admissions of being 'dirt-bags' as is - and even admit they cannot be trusted in some ways - since all they have is this 'sinful nature' keeping them 'human'. **

And this is what I'm not sure many conservative Christians grasp. If this is how they feel about themselves, why would I want to trust them or associate with them? How could I trust them with who I am?

OneSmallStep said...

Lorena,

That's the first time I've heard that time. My view of God usually gravitated towards the panentheistic, as Marcus Borg described you. God is both in you and other.
God is insulting you.