tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post6641697417836270705..comments2023-11-02T08:25:17.606-07:00Comments on I wonder as I wander: Define God.OneSmallStephttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-56868903226786730702008-04-19T13:54:00.000-07:002008-04-19T13:54:00.000-07:00Maybe God is more of a question than an answer?The...Maybe God is more of a question than an answer?<BR/><BR/>The God we were taught about in traditional christianity is the answers to the problems people have faced over the centuries. Doctrines, like the trinity, are attempts to gloss over some of the less intelligent answers of our faith ancestors.<BR/><BR/>my 2 centsMike L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15978997781556741350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-82732626770610484092008-04-14T14:08:00.000-07:002008-04-14T14:08:00.000-07:00Mystical,And the fun part is that I could've kept ...Mystical,<BR/><BR/>And the fun part is that I could've kept going. The whole Trinitarian idea starts to unravel for me when I break down a huge portion of Biblical texts. <BR/><BR/>Society, <BR/><BR/>**That's why it's a no win scenario for us - if there is even one scripture that points to Jesus being God - that's all they need for proof.**<BR/><BR/>It's not only that, but that one verse gets used to interpret all the other verses. It we can to get techincal, perhaps we can say that we're the most Sola Scripture of them all -- you can't come anywhere close to the current Trinitarian understanding, just by reading the Bible alone. It gets blurry with Paul and John, but even in those two, I see a definite hierarchy. You pray to God through Jesus Christ. God works through Christ, God raised Christ, we are hid in Christ with God, people will bow at the name of Jesus to the glory of God the Father, and so on. <BR/><BR/>** It becomes like talking to a 'brick wall' - they are not open on this point (they are restricted by the fact they cannot be truly free in thought - not allowed in church doctrine)**<BR/><BR/>That's another frustrating thing, and you've alluded to this before. You are exploring what you see in the Bible, and get told that this "heresy" is nothing new and was resolved with Arius, or anyone else. That's fine, but you aren't raising these questions because you've read church history. You're raising these questions because you're reading the Bible. <BR/><BR/>The standard response to this is that the Trinity is a mystery, but I see that as a cop-out. I really do. I've raised these verses before, and am told that I have to look at the entire Bible, and not just one or two verses: focus on the message as a whole. ANd then to prove that Jesus is God, I get one or two verses used as support. So we can clearly understanding the Jesus=God passages, but not all the blurry ones that need a definition of God? Because the latter by far outweights the former.OneSmallStephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-48915440322510539392008-04-14T09:16:00.000-07:002008-04-14T09:16:00.000-07:00I have the same problems when looking into the tri...I have the same problems when looking into the trinity doctrine - Jesus and God the Father are very seperate and this abundantly clear in any and all of those passages. They are 2 different people also - meaning if Jesus is God - then there are 2 gods (since Father and Son are seperate in many passages)?<BR/><BR/>Plus, no matter how much you point out the obvious in some of these passages - Christians have some deafness complex going on when it comes to addressing their orthodoxy - they cannot hear it seems (or refuse to think it through). It becomes like talking to a 'brick wall' - they are not open on this point (they are restricted by the fact they cannot be truly free in thought - not allowed in church doctrine). <BR/><BR/>I see Jesus as the Christ - someone very close to God (like a son and has God's right hand) - very close. But that being said - I don't see him as the essence of God - but also a creation of God. Maybe the greatest creation of God - but a creation nonetheless. And trying to make this distinction is where I lose everyone that thinks Jesus is God. <BR/><BR/>Also, I would say Paul and John's gospel allow for this Trinity view - certain aspects of what both authors say point to this idea. That's why it's a no win scenario for us - if there is even one scripture that points to Jesus being God - that's all they need for proof.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-22504602696976476422008-04-14T08:49:00.000-07:002008-04-14T08:49:00.000-07:00I think you've documented the problem pretty well....I think you've documented the problem pretty well. What's going on in a lot of passages is that the Trinity is retrofitted (often with great difficulty) back into passages that were not meant to be formulated as Trinitarian theology. So that is why you end up with a hodgepodge of ways of expressing the Trinitarian God in those passages you cited. It really is not consistent or coherent.Mystical Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828225180668865911noreply@blogger.com