tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post4024181245405039282..comments2023-11-02T08:25:17.606-07:00Comments on I wonder as I wander: Not what Jesus IntendedOneSmallStephttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-45915598557414734982008-06-15T16:41:00.000-07:002008-06-15T16:41:00.000-07:00D,Agreed. As soon as your faith/religion aligns w...D,<BR/><BR/>Agreed. As soon as your faith/religion aligns with the very system responsible for the execution of your leader, I think your faith is going to run into some problems. Jesus' message wasn't suppose to be compatible with a man-made empire.OneSmallStephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08189124855157679020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-422083129026603562008-06-13T13:34:00.000-07:002008-06-13T13:34:00.000-07:00Amen. The greatest co-opting of religion happened ...Amen. <BR/><BR/>The greatest co-opting of religion happened at Constantinople with the Nicene Creed, IMHO. And it's continued ever since.David Hensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12337652985240550352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-16270983716498760132008-05-16T08:37:00.000-07:002008-05-16T08:37:00.000-07:00"and yet subequent generations of people who said ..."and yet subequent generations of people who said they followed Jesus ended up making an alliance with that same Empire and adopted the ideology of Empire as their own." (Mystical)<BR/><BR/>It's strange but Crossan's views on this do resonate with me concerning my view of country and faith...I like his perspective (which is also yours). I am yet to buy one of his books - but he is next on a list I have (in my head). <BR/><BR/>It is true Empire tries to define God and control God. True Christianity will not be embraced by the Empire - because in some senses - it's adverse to it's rulership. One just need view the 60's with a slightly open mind to consider what happened there with the many incidences of country trying to rule freedoms - freedoms our faith see's as God given rights (ex: equality and the right to non-violence - no to war!).<BR/><BR/>Empire is quite in the face of common decencies and this lastest round we all have to live under - Western Rule - even though democratic - is a slave to dollar bill. The regime us pushed by an agenda of money versus an agenda of human compassion. The church does not see it very celarly - they are not even looking in that direction really - and have become businesses themselves. Yet, the agenda Christ pushed was humanity at it's basest form deserves compassion...and the church's focus is mis-guided. They are part empire and part God's kingdom - fulfilling John's vision - lukewarm. <BR/><BR/>God is love (kingdom of God) and God is not money (kingdom of this world - empire). Anything that deviates towards either pole will pull one towards their true master.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-24047334275831005292008-05-15T09:30:00.000-07:002008-05-15T09:30:00.000-07:00I would say that Canadians live next door to what ...I would say that Canadians live next door to what is essentially the modern Rome. I like what Crossan has to say about Empire, that Empires are all about establishing a hollow "peace" through victory, whereas instead true peace comes through justice. The American Empire is just the most recent in a long history of empires. One of this historical empires executed Jesus--and yet subequent generations of people who said they followed Jesus ended up making an alliance with that same Empire and adopted the ideology of Empire as their own.Mystical Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828225180668865911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-62585972507857795862008-05-14T14:07:00.000-07:002008-05-14T14:07:00.000-07:00Very timely message by the person that said in Afr...Very timely message by the person that said in Africa - and the same one needs to be said in America more often...because churches think 'works/deeds' is such a bad thing - it's worse to not have them in the right places. <BR/><BR/>I tend to agree also with you, this alliance with Rome sent this faith into a conundrum of supporting patriotism over and sometimes versus supporting the 'good news'. It's clear in that African case mentioned by Maclaren - but not so clear to those sucking the teet of Western wealth and country. <BR/><BR/>Rome to me is not the problem - it WAS the problem. We have to deal with that same idea in the now - the right now and what that means. I guess that would be country morality vs. gospel morality and what that means. <BR/><BR/>I am a Canadian, and the good thing is, we really aren't all that patriotic about faith (like a Canadian faith system or what have you). We are quite free in our sense of religion - not too rigid to the left or the right. But I also know that I follow the teachings of Jesus over and above our common laws and deceny. Which means, for me, the person in Africa's rebuke is meaningful on a larger communal scale. <BR/><BR/>I guess we need to deal with the religious problems of church and state - and the ties there that restrict the gospel - or even church doctrine that does this - which I see this blog doing.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2656181765145241350.post-48352589989581241862008-05-14T08:46:00.000-07:002008-05-14T08:46:00.000-07:00I often wonder if the gospel went astray with the ...<I>I often wonder if the gospel went astray with the marriage of Rome and Christianity</I><BR/><BR/>I agree. <BR/><BR/>I do suspect that things were already going astray by then, or else the church wouldn't have been so eager to make an unholy alliance with Empire. I think the church had already become an exclusionary institutional hierarchy, whereas Jesus himself was inclusive and opposed the prevailing institutional religious hierarchies of his time. So I think that explicitly allying itself with Empire was perhaps the coup de grace, the culmination of a bad trend that was already taking place.Mystical Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828225180668865911noreply@blogger.com